Biden condemns violence and disorder as some college protests escalate into confrontations

Amna Nawaz:

Police in riot gear broke up an encampment at UCLA overnight and arrested protesters after another day of high tensions on campus. That followed earlier violence from counterprotesters.

Geoff Bennett:

So far, more than 2,000 people have been arrested in the last two weeks. While many protests have been peaceful and many of the arrested are not students, the past week has seen a series of escalating confrontations, occupations, and shutdowns.

That led President Joe Biden to condemn violence and disorder today following the latest developments in Los Angeles.

Overnight, hundreds of pro-Palestinian protesters at UCLA defied warnings to leave their encampment. And just before dawn, police tore down the tents. Over the course of the day, they arrested more than 200 people. The police response was still under way when President Biden spoke at the White House and drew a line between dissent and disorder.

Joe Biden, President of the United States: So, let me be clear. Peaceful protest in America — violent protest is not protected. Peaceful protest is. It's against the law when violence occurs. Destroying property is not a peaceful protest. It's against the law.

Vandalism, trespassing, breaking windows, shutting down campuses, forcing the cancellation of classes and graduations, none of this is a peaceful protest.

Geoff Bennett:

The president, when asked by a reporter, said the National Guard should not be deployed to respond to the protests. And when asked if the protests have made him reconsider his policies in the region, the president said no.

Back in Los Angeles, police faced growing criticism for a delayed response to Tuesday night's assault on the protesters' campsite at UCLA. The city's mayor and California's governor have complained, and students today were still angry.

Taylor Gee, UCLA School of Law Student: I think it's especially galling for a lot of protesters, because, less than 24 hours ago, the protesters in this encampment were attacked by more than 200 unidentified counterprotesters who showed up in the middle of the night and assaulted the encampment for seven hours.

And the police didn't show up for the first three or four. And then, when they did, they sat around and they watched for another hour-and-a-half.

Protesters:

There's no riot here! Why are you in riot gear?

Geoff Bennett:

Elsewhere, police also broke up a protester encampment at Dartmouth College in New Hampshire last night and arrested 90 people. Today, the school's president defended the action.

In a statement, President Sian Beilock said — quote — "Last night, people felt so strongly about their beliefs that they were willing to face disciplinary action and arrest. While there is bravery in that, part of choosing to engage in this way is not just acknowledging, but accepting that actions have consequences."

In Oregon, protesters occupying a Portland State University library were cleared out of the building by police. Once outside, protesters dismantled police barricades. But while some protests are intensifying, others are coming to an end. Officials at the University of Minnesota reached a deal with pro-Palestinian demonstrators to disband their encampment today.

As part of the agreement, organizations involved in the protest will get to meet with the university's Board of Regents next week to discuss how the school should divest from companies with ties to the Israeli military.

New York police also released bodycam video from Tuesday, when officers swept into Hamilton Hall at Columbia University. They cut through chains and faced barricades of furniture before arresting protesters. More than 100 people were arrested.

Given the video of these clashes and the rising number of police called to campuses, it's easy to lose track of where protests have been generally peaceful. But Wesleyan University in Connecticut has largely had a peaceful encampment so far. There has been some vandalism and significant tensions on campus, but not at the level we have seen at some other schools.

Michael S. Roth is the president of Wesleyan University and he joins us now.

Thank you for being with us.

So let's start there. Why hasn't Wesleyan seen the level of disruption, certainly not the level of violence that we have seen on other campuses? What accounts for that? How are you approaching this?

Michael S. Roth, President, Wesleyan University:

It makes me nervous to hear you say that, because it just takes a few bozos to turn a peaceful protest into something else.

And at many of these other schools, it has been non-students and people who are looking for a fight or for confrontation who turn things towards mayhem and disorder, or, in the case of UCLA, counterprotests that were violent themselves.

We have been fortunate at Wesleyan that the students who are protesting who are bearing witness to a disaster in Gaza want to engage in discussions with their fellow students, with their faculty members, with staff members, sometimes even with me, although they want me to do stuff that I don't agree with.

They want the university to divest from companies that do business with Israel. I don't think that's a sensible idea. But I do think having more conversations about what we can do to bring peace to the Middle East makes a lot of sense. And I'm proud the students aren't just worried about their finals. They're worried about a very important issue in world affairs.

Geoff Bennett:

What's your reaction to what we have seen transpire at UCLA over the last 48 hours and at Columbia University, with the NYPD clearing a campus building?

Michael S. Roth:

Well, I think, when people break into a building and start destroying property, one has to get law enforcement to help.

I mean, I think that's really unfortunate. But I do think that, as the president of Dartmouth said, actions have consequences, and those actions demanded a response. UCLA seems quite more complicated because of the role that counterprotesters played when they attacked the encampment.

What we have tried to do at Wesleyan is to keep people talking to each other, even when they disagree. And, sometimes, they disagree vehemently, but we want them to talk to each other, because, after all, you only learn from talking to people who don't share your point of view. You're not going to learn a lot from talking to somebody who agrees with you.

Geoff Bennett:

Well, tell me more about that. How do you balance freedom of expression with student safety in a situation like this?

Michael S. Roth:

Well, I'm pragmatist. I wrote a book called "Safe Enough Spaces," which is about how you make these judgments. You don't want the place to be too safe, because then you never encounter anything really disturbing, but you don't want the place to be so unsafe that you're too afraid to really learn.

You want to find a middle ground where people can listen to ideas, even offensive ideas, and find out why someone else holds those ideas and maybe in the end learn from them. So we have tried to do that by cultivating a culture of conversation across difference. And in these days in America, that's hard, because people do retreat to their silos.

They retreat to their own in-groups. But our faculty and our staff and our students have worked very hard to keep lines of communication open, because students at Wesleyan, they don't stay in their own lane. They're likely to be people in athletics who do theater, who do science, and they talk to each other.

And I think that habit of talking across difference makes it easier to prevent the outgrowth of violence.

Geoff Bennett:

What do you make of this argument that we have heard from professors in some cases that institutions of higher learning are not so tolerant of demonstrations these days, and that universities are so afraid of the political blowback from lawmakers that they're being overly aggressive in how they're responding to all of this?

Michael S. Roth:

I think each case is a little different. As you pointed out when we looked at the video just now, I mean, there are a lot of campuses where there is — there's peace. They don't make it on the news. It's not as exciting to watch a peaceful demonstration.

But I do think, in some cases, the pressure by lawmakers to do something, to show that they're doing something, or, in some cases, perhaps, donors to show that you're tough, this is counterproductive. We don't need to show we're tough. We need to show that we're educational.

And Congress is not the institution to give lessons on how to talk across difference or how to be educational. Professors and presidents have to have the courage to stand up to politicians and donors who want to force us to do things that are countereducational. We need to create safe enough spaces, peaceful campuses where people can agree and disagree across lots of differences.

Geoff Bennett:

Wesleyan University President Michael S. Roth, thanks for your time and for your insights this evening.

Michael S. Roth:

Thank you.